I failed the validation because of a button. Here's my story and suggestion

kSq6L3jhAW3OVXM

Hello everyone, wish you'll great and best of luck.
As we now, epoch 056 validation has ended, but unfortunely I getting killed because of "that damn button", "submit answer". I know this sound absurd but bear with me, I will explain how it happened, the problem with the current submit answer button, the problem with validation windows and my suggestion to make "submit button" and validation windows better.

Background Story

I know idena about I month ago and started to join in. My very first validation was on the epoch 054, it went great even tho there was some problem after the validation ended as we all know. Moving forward I was validated with 100% score and get status as newbie.

On the next epoch (epoch 55) thing go smoothly as well, I had no problem getting validated with the score of 100 %

The next epoch was disaster for me

Epoch 056 Validation

I prepare this validation 1 hour earlier, my node sync and running, had erased my cache, all in all, all is well. I knew when I passed this validation my status get verified and I can't hold the excitement.

until...

validation started...

Short session begin. Out of adrenaline, because of quite nervous on how short the short session is I answered the first flip and CLICKED THE "SUBMIT BUTTON" !!

[image courtesy of https://bruno.id/running-a-dedicated-idena-node/]

And you know what happened ? It ended my short session and begin long session without any confirmation at all!

I went on on long session like nothing happened, finished it with 100% accuracy. I mean I still thinking even tho I just answered 1 flips, submitted it on time and got 100% accuracy on long session, sure enough I still get validated, because I attended and finished it, right ?

Oh boy how wrong am I !

After validation I shocked to know that my identity is killed ! All my iDNA was lost and I only got the stake (which is about 20 iDNA)

That's why I decided to write this post and to inform how stupid it is to got killed even tho you attend the validation, you submit short and long session answer, with 100% accuracy and getting killed because of the submit button.

but how and why it happening you ask, what's the problem with submit button (and validation windows in general), let me explain

"Submit answer" Button Problem

Ok, we start with the validation windows

[image courtesy of https://bruno.id/running-a-dedicated-idena-node/]

You get flips on the center, arrow left and right beside flips, the flip counter below flip, and "submit answer" button with blue button on the left button corner.

I'll ask you question, when you do flip with limited amount of time, answer it and see the blue submit answer button more prominent than arrow left / right, what will you choose ?

click the "submit answer" button right. Because your intuition will go to below and the blue submit button more prominent than arrow left / right so it's logical to click it because of the logical flow.

You see, the problem is when you click the blue more prominent "submit answer" button, there are NO CONFIRMATION TO ENDED THE SHORT SESSION AT ALL! it just... end.... and start the long session

There's no "You sure with your answer" type of confirmation, like I said it just end...

Suggestion for "Submit Answer" Button

So, to make this won't happen again, I propose changes as follow

Make a confirmation before submitting the flips
Confirmation like "You sure with your answer ?" will make a different whether get your identity killed or validated
Un-active the "Submit Answer" button before all flip answered or viewed
Making "Submit Answer" un-active (unclickable) by greyed it out, and when user viewed all the flip or answered it then make it active (clickable). This way will reduce the chance user clicked "submit answer" button very first time they see it (like I did).
Make a guidance about how to do validation before validation start (10 minute before start)
As we know the validation windows was quite confusing (misleading answer button, non logical order, tiny next arrow). So to makes thing easier for the newcomers, and makes it remember to existed user, I proposed guidance windows on how to do validation 10 minutes before validation start. This way newcomers will benefit to what to expect on validation, how to do validation, get confidence to their very first validation . The existed user will benefit to remember how to do validation (because validation 2 weeks apart), and reduces the chances of confusion.

Verdict

All in all, that's my 1 month experience with idena. I could say I enjoy it, even when they still have problem like this. even when my identity get killed because of my stupidity, I want to make idena better.
For follow up I raise the isue on their github page
https://github.com/idena-network/idena-desktop/issues/460
Please everyone raise the issue to the dev team so they implemented it.
I would make request please implemented it in the next epoch as it would greatly increase the user experience.

please if you got question discuss it here.

thank you very much, thats all I could say.

p.s. I'm posting this using my friend identity since my identity can't be used to login.
disclaimer, since english is not my first language, please pardon me if any mistake on this post.

kSq6L3jhAW3OVXM

UPDATE #1

Digging deeper I found idena validation tutorial on medium

https://medium.com/idena/how-to-pass-a-validation-session-in-idena-1724a0203e81

and found validation windows there

so by default, submit button unactive when you didn't choose the answer and became active when the answer selected.

When you have solved the flips, the Submit answers button will become active — submit your answers then. Otherwise they will be submitted automatically when the short session time is over.

what baffled me is the wording telling to answer and click on the submit button after answered the flips, EXACTLY WHAT I DID WRONG!

The solution to the problem is EXTREMELY SIMPLE, just don't active the button until user at least view all the flips, or user answared all the flips.

Current implementation when user click the answer and submit button activated thinking logically user should click the button below the flips when the reality user should click the TINY, GREY arrows beside the flips.

U0GmXYtUM2NWJUt

This happened to my boomer family too. Please make short session more friendly.
If "submit confirmation" takes more time, at least show the submit button only when all FLIPS are done.
Thank you.

kSq6L3jhAW3OVXM

U0GmXYtUM2NWJUt

I knew many people experience this. Thank you on your feedback.

Bayu

U0GmXYtUM2NWJUt It seems like a good idea, that the "Submit" button should not be displayed if all the Flips in the short session have not been answered.
And I also prefer if the automatic submission can be done by itself

Seki

Thanks telling us your frustration and suggestion. I'm in similar situation even worse, but trying to capture much bigger perspective view of this rare opportunity of the first practical proof of the person, I hope.

Here's some clarification, of which most miss leading behavior of current implementation I observed.
It might be wrong, but I understood during my experience of the ceremonies,

Short Session
1. Submit button become active when the last (6th?) flip is shown.
2. Validation result of the short session won't be submitted automatically without clicking the submit button.
Long Session
1. Regardless of short session result, it starts.
2. Accepts the submit button anytime/any flip, and then session ends
3. if prior short session is NOT submitted, the results won't be recorded

Many of us are uncomfortable, and agree with having some tutorial, but I'm afraid that dev may not be able to handle several trade-offs between those improvements and bot protection at the same time in a short period, and thus, leave it relatively low priority unless major faults for the lifecycle.

kSq6L3jhAW3OVXM

Seki

Seki Submit button become active when the last (6th?) flip is shown.

so then why my button became active the very first time I answered first flip ? I boldly remember that blue submit button active and as soon as I clicked it my short session ended. that's why I got only 1 answer right. Remember it was not only happened to me

Seki gree with having some tutorial, but I'm afraid that dev may not be able to handle several trade-offs between those improvements and bot protection at the same time in a short period, and thus, leave it relatively low priority unless major faults for the lifecycle

as I mentioned above post, tutorial could start 10 minutes before validation start until validation start. The purpose of the tutorial is to inform new member on how to do validation. The other purpose is to remind how to do validation on the existing user. That way user become more confidence and reducing chances that my case happened again.

Seki

At the short sessions, we can't click "submit" without seeing all the flips, but in the long sessions, probably after selecting one answer at least, we're able to"submit" flip answers at anytime.

When we talk about these logical process, "state transitions" with strict definitions of the terms used would be a kind of a tool. I've seen many of ambiguity like this in the early materials from original Idena team, and trying to sort out them.

The short session is the core of the experiment to identify individual and eliminates bots, and succeeding long session is to qualify the individuals for flip perception. Both kinds of sessions done in similar appearance, but have completely different objectives, in the course of growth while strengthening sybil attack resistance.

Here's an user perspective, rough sketch example

My challenge is to provide these to for visually and intellectually impaired individuals without having text or verbal languages.

kSq6L3jhAW3OVXM

Bayu New client update adressed this issue. Lets see on the next validation.

iKTaJLa1TemNcVE

The problem remained, even in the web client.
As I was told, this happens at a low Internet speed, when only one flip has time to load, the person has time to answer it, and the rest of the flips have not yet had time to load.